chances of bad news at 20 week scan mumsnet

Maybe. At which point they turned round and said, 'Well, there is something very seriously wrong with the baby, we don't know exactly what, but you do need to have a more in-depth scan at your regional hospital to find out the detail'. The same anticipation. We went in, had a scan, I can't remember the exact sequence of events because the baby was still in the wrong position. When he came back, he agreed on a termination. And, sometimes, I wish I had invited my whole family into the hospital room to see him. That was the first time I had heard him cry. You have accepted additional cookies. With my oldest it turns out she has a minor thing that affects 1 in 1000 of the population and wont harm her at all it's just "there" and with my second the issue turned out to be nothing. Looked exactly like our two year old as a baby. Sam squeezed my hand and told me it was ok. What were babys measurements at 20 week scan? I know its hard- but i really wouldnt worry about it too much as the worry will stress you and your body out. I noticed the box of tissues on the table. We talked all night and thanked God for crap television. There was an extra digit on one of the hands. We're going to go and see them. Thick milky discharge at 14 weeks.tmi pic attached. So that was it. She didn't want to see the baby. I used to think the feeling of your baby kicking inside you and the sight of a foot poking against your skin were the most fantastic things in the world. It sounds crazy, but I just knew. It is extremely rare for these pregnancies to reach term as they typically spontaneously miscarry early in pregnancy. I mean, you just, you're just overwhelmed, it's so much fun. The pain was excruciating, but nothing compared to how I felt inside. What would we like to do with the body? We bought a two tests that evening (quite lucky as I messed the first one up!). The consultant had said it wouldn't be like a normal delivery. All my instincts were to protect my belly, yet here I was allowing someone to stick a huge needle into it. And so, yeah we got to, carried on with the pregnancy, kept seeing the consultant, kept sitting in the waiting room outside, because there was a terribly long waiting time sometimes, depending on what time you had the appointment. I travelled to work that day feeling amazing. The week that followed was an agonising wait. And she sort of got up and walked out of the room and called someone in. This publication is available at https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/screening-tests-for-you-and-your-baby/11-physical-conditions-20-week-scan. We had the 20 week scan yesterday and got some devastating news. I endured 12 hours of medication and in the early hours February 7, 56 days after my first scan (at nearly 18 weeks), I miscarried our babies. Though the 18-20 week scan can detect when certain parts of the baby's body have grown abnormally, it may not be possible for clinicians to identify why it has happened or make a firm diagnosis based on the scan alone. Just wonder whether anyone had ever been told? Most scans are carried out by specially trained staff called sonographers. 18-20 week scans provide clinicians with more information than earlier scans because by18 weeks a healthy baby should be larger and better developed. (See 'Resources'). It's been a heartbreaking nightmare. unfortunately the 20 week anomaly scan can pick up serious issues, hearing heart beats at midwife appointment doesn't let us know what's going on inside the body in detail. Parents get a chance to emotionally adapt to news and plan. Sometimes women were told that the sonographer had found a 'marker' or sign of a chromosomal condition and had to wait for an amniocentesis to confirm the findings. To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account. Having the scan does not hurt but the sonographer may need to apply slight pressure to get the best views of your baby. Emma was 20 weeks' pregnant when a routine scan revealed that the baby she was expecting had Down's syndrome and heart problems. I give pregnant women dirty looks. BabyCenter. You've had a scan, you've had the blood tests, you've been good. Seeing your baby on a screen can be really exciting. I think what everyone is saying is that most likely outcome is that there are no problems at all. In most cases the scan will show that your baby appears to be developing as expected but sometimes a condition is found or suspected. So choroid plexus cysts on their own, no problem, but if there's something else wrong, then that's a problem. The same unique expression he had when he saw our two year old born. I think it's the same - in fact I think it was probably the same room, same consultant - and [sighs] I suppose it felt upsetting because at the dating scan you're full of hope and this scan we knew wasn't going to be good, we knew it was maybe the last time we would see the baby moving around. Eventually she got the measurements she wanted. An hour passed and I started to panic. Unfortunately I was not met with a compassionate sonographer. It took 20 minutes to push him out. And then all of a sudden, I was still laughing and we were all very upbeat, and then suddenly, he suddenly said, but I was still, still laughing, and he said to me, 'Oh, there might be a problem, there might be a problem with the, I think this baby has hydrocephalus'. Likely to have serious medical problems all his life. To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account. Possibly with hindsight we could have been more worried about it, but was probably a good thing we weren't, because we weren't worried about anything basically. I hated my body and hated every feeling I was having. It was just sort of deadpan faces, very serious looks, someone else coming to check. We must have had one before that as well, we must have had one before that, but it came back quite normal. And I thought that if I were faced with the possibility of having an amnio, hours of discussion would follow - I would spend days mulling it over. But at the 20 week scan, which was on a Wednesday, we saw the nurse at the local hospital, the sonographer, and she did a scan and she found that the femur length was quite short in the, in the fetus. I wrote a few things down last night when we were trying to go over things, just to remind myself. But it is a soft marker for Edwards' syndrome. Some parents wondered if it was possible to have the same scan done at 16 weeks rather than 20 weeks. A company limited by guarantee registered in England and Wales company number 3266897. I want to be nice again. Some stories I hear are amazing! For instance a couple who knew their baby was 'on the small size' were told he was fine at the 18-20 week scan, but discovered at 32 weeks that he had microcephaly. The gel makes sure there is good contact between the probe and your skin. We spent the next few weeks in a happy bubble. This does not mean there is anything to worry about. I broke down and started hitting my disgusting body that had done this. It is essential that all practitioners performing fetal anomaly ultrasound screening should be trained to communicate abnormal findings to women, as such information is likely to have significant emotional impact. Thanks girls, it's amazing how protected our babies are in there isn't it?! And that was extraordinary to see the detail that that could offer. He felt strong and fit and healthy. In the case of a suspected abnormality, women should be seen for a second opinion by an expert in fetal ultrasound, such as a fetal medicine specialist. And still we asked to see a, Impact of the 20-week and later specialist scans. That they could have spotted something, or not? She wanted to have a look at the skull, which was the main thing, but she couldn't see it from where the baby was. We left the hospital a couple of hours later. My partner's face was lit up, seeing the baby for the first time. Do you have any thoughts about that? Why me and not you, you bastard? But here I was, minutes later, lying down, waiting. Some parents wondered if it was possible to have the same scan done at 16 weeks rather than 20 weeks. But the closeness has remained after the drama has died down. I get terribly irritated by my close friends and family. Some things can be seen more clearly than others. I did think it was a bit strange that she wasn't talking, and then she sort of said, 'Oh, I think there's a problem. But it was very evident. I felt empty, scared, guilty and incredibly heartbroken. And I knew there was no way out. But they didn't. I couldn't work out what was taking so long and put it down to the doctor being young and inexperienced. . But before he could speak, he, too, had broken down. He sounded like a wild animal in pain, deep pain. Sometimes specialist scans such as 3D scans, or MRI scans, are used to examine the baby in greater detail. In some cases concerns in utero fix themselves sometimes needs treatment. Wishing to be anywhere, but here being told the same agonising truth over and . I'd had the scan in the scanning room, I can't remember what they call it now, it's silly, it's gone from my head. So carried on with the plans, and, you know, planning for the, another baby to come along and then we went for a 20- week scan which is obviously the big one and very exciting, seeing all the arms and legs and once again everything was going fine, 'Look here's the baby, here's the length of baby'. And, so they sent me home at that stage because they said the specialist wasn't available till the following day, which was awful. Eventually, the doctor finished the scan and said that some of the baby's measurements were very small. For women who have been given distressing news about their baby during the scan, there should be a health professional available to provide immediate support. Saturday came. I mean the lady who was scanning was very quiet for a long time. Maybe our son would have overcome his problems, survived his illnesses, led a happy life. Soon, the doctor came and inserted the tablets that would induce labour. And so we had to go out a couple of times, [wife] had to walk around, and she had a drink of water, which is supposed to sort of change things inside, or help the baby turn around or something because the sonographer couldn't get the measurements she wanted. At that point, I got very not upset but quite sort of strongly severe sort of with the people at the hospital saying, 'Look, you know, that's 24 hours, possibly a 48 hours' wait - that's not something that's tenable. It would be a personal tragedy for my partner and me, but that is all. Good luck has not come easily over the past few years. Just doing it. The sonographer then passes a hand-held probe over your skin to examine the babys body. Never being able to look after himself. He started to scan me with a cold expression, then told me, "it didn't look good" and that "my womb looked raggedy". Most hospitals do not allow children to attend scans as childcare is not usually available. And you could see, where you should have a picture of 4 chambers, you could really see 2. Immediately I knew what decision we should take. I was becoming numb to the whole process. Yeah, yeah. If one of the conditions is found or suspected, the sonographer may ask for a second opinion from another member of staff. We saw the consultant, who was reassuring, saying that he would rescan me and was sure everything would be fine. By this time, we were tired. It felt as if we'd gone underground, that we were part of the criminal fraternity. For example, you may be offered further tests that have a risk of miscarriage. The scan looks for 11 different conditions in your baby and cannot find everything that might be wrong. She describes having to make a momentous decision very quickly, and the ferment of relief, guilt and grief that followed, Original reporting and incisive analysis, direct from the Guardian every morning. Yeah - in, stomach, out. This time, they discovered the baby has a two vessel cord (only one vessel from placenta to baby instead of two) and I've been monitored to make sure the baby grows properly and kidneys aren't damaged. The first result, which tells you if the baby has Down's syndrome, is ready in three days, but the other chromosomal problems cannot be eliminated for up to three weeks. Some say this estimate is really below the reality, and the out-of-pocket average costs are higher. No one else ever met the object of my grief. Public Health England (PHE) created this information on behalf of the NHS. Eventually, the midwife said to us very sweetly, "I think we should deliver the baby now." We went, I went in to the scanning room and they're quite bland facially anyway, whether everything's fine or not they just look at the screen to start off with and do measurements but I very quickly realised that the woman's demeanour wasn't, even for a bland face, was concerning. Surely he couldn't have missed anything else that is so serious x. I was becoming numb to the whole process. And so this one can't tell you anything, it's pictures, you're going, you're going to see your baby, you're going to get pictures. However, a few hours later there was another shift change. The doctor gave her consent, and I took the four little tablets. Let a mum know you're thinking of them send one of our personalised Mother's Day cards today, Home I had no idea if we were doing the "right" thing. It was positive, and I felt elated. I think the whole experience has made me a pretty nasty person. I had never imagined having an amniocentesis. Some people had underestimated how serious any abnormality found at this stage could be for the baby. Mumsnet carries some affiliate marketing links, so if you buy something through our posts, we may get a small share of the sale (more details here). It was a bit worrying but on the plus side I got an extra couple of scans and an extra couple of pictures. The people who did know what was going on seemed far too sure that we were doing the right thing, that there was really no choice to be made. I want to enjoy my son again, without any reservations. The only thing you're thinking now is the birth, and what if something goes wrong in the birth? So obviously quite relaxed. ABDOMINAL CIRCUMFERENCE MEASUREMENT AT 20 WEEK SCAN. They sort of drew some diagrams, and they said, 'But we need to refer you to a specialist to confirm the diagnosis'. When I think about how long it took them to deliberate ultimately, maybe not, but it just felt like a bit of a fast food situation, didn't it? I faced another internal scan where I began to feel helpless and alone. After preparing myself to face having to take the medication. . If you choose not to have the scan you can still have all other parts of your routine antenatal care. Forcing my hand to my mouth to take the tablet was probably the hardest thing I have ever done. The 18 -20 week fetal anomaly scan is a watershed in most pregnancies because for the majority of women it will be the last time they are scanned before giving birth. Try to relax and take it easy. Tissue paper will be tucked around your clothing to protect it from the ultrasound gel, which will then be put on your tummy. I think I don't everything just seems a real blur because it was, it was such a strange experience. A long process of blood tests, scans, doctors and hospitals. You may need to have a full bladder when you come for the appointment. Very occasionally this second scan cannot be completed, for example because: In this case you will not be offered another screening scan but you will offered an all over physical examination for your baby after birth. Desperately trying to hold onto the glimmer of hope we'd been given. And she said that, you know, as the, if the baby did develop further there would probably be other problems with internal organs that weren't really that visible at that stage. He told me that they may want to do blood tests, but that 'he didn't see the point'. 'Yes, if that's okay with you,' kind of thing, like you do. It will take only 2 minutes to fill in. Smiling at myself and picturing me and Sam becoming parents. the amniocentesis) and the pregnancy had already ended, or because the scan was not routinely offered in their region 5 or more years ago. So we gave up and said we'd arrange the funeral ourselves. Specialist scans So it was, there was very, very little movement from the baby because I remembered first time round by that stage, you know, that the baby was quite big and it moved around a lot at a later scan. Mumsnet carries some affiliate marketing links, so if you buy something through our posts, we may get a small share of the sale (more details here). Our nightmare began when I went for my 20-week scan. Usually, sonographers will ask a senior sonographer colleague to confirm findings and this should be done immediately. This might be uncomfortable. I was then told yet again bad news. And as, and as soon as I saw the pictures of the scan, having had two normal pregnancies, even I could see that there was a marked contrast between this pregnancy and the pictures that I'd had previously. I'm trying to understand because I haven't seen a 3-D scan, what it tells the parents? Instead, we were shown to a room slightly away from the rest of the ward and the midwife stayed with us to talk through what was going to happen. Can you remember that minute. Went off for the 20-week scan, which you didn't, you weren't there, were you, for the first scan? And before they gave me any of the results she asked a colleague to come and told me she wanted to check something, with a colleague, and by then I was getting very concerned because I'd never had that happen before. I know it is still early days. SO much upset and needless angst has been caused by 'soft markers' found at scans. As I say, I'm not a very nice person at the moment. And it all seemed so near at hand, you know, 31, 30 weeks, you feel like you're nearly, you're on the home stretch. So we left it there, and we didn't actually think that there was anything really to worry about after that scan. Reading individual, real-life experiences can be a helpful resource, but it is never a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment from a qualified health care provider. And at the end of the day however much we talked about it - that it was going to be the two of us to make the decision and me to actually you know, go through it and decide that that was what was going to happen for him - and I just, I didn't want to do it. For example, some babies have a condition called open spina bifida, which affects the spinal cord. Everywhere you look, there are happy, fat, smug pregnant women. He started to scan me with a cold expression, then told me, 'it didn't look good' and that 'my womb looked raggedy'. And I, and, I felt the weight of deciding what to do about it. It was far too much power; neither of us wanted it. Rather sharply, my partner tried to explain. I think there might be a problem'. I felt crushed, I wanted him to at least acknowledge what had been found already. You're in and out and that was it. Purpose of screening. My baby might have Down's syndrome. And my husband, we never got to sit next to each other in the consulting room, my husband was across the room from me, and I was sat next to the consultant, and we were laughing and joking with him about, you know, the home delivery, and everything was going to be, 'Are you still on for the home delivery?' Another sick joke. You may like someone to come with you to the scan appointment. I was sent home with a leaflet, strong painkillers and two types of antibiotics. 10/03/2021 16:13, @Cormoransjacket I was given a leaflet and told to return four days later to see the consultant. 20 week scans look for 11 different anomalies as a rule, however, indicators (markers) are not terribly reliable and in all the literature I found, the targets set for stonographers look like they only pick up around 50% or less of these variants. I wasn't unduly worried at all. Hugely upset that to think that the baby was so poorly. Christmas came and went in a blur of emotion, it felt so wrong to be celebrating when we were in such turmoil. So on the Monday we went in to see the senior sonographer, I think she was a consultant at the hospital. I didn't really know what that was. I want to be happy again. You could see her face, and the major aspect that was, that was the indication of what was wrong was the thickening at the back of the neck in this instance, which, when you're looking at a fetus is, you know, sort of half a centimetre thicker or not is completely immaterial to me, and would look like a completely normal neck, but from the point of view of the consultant was severely abnormal. I was wondering if anyone has been is this situation and can give me a glimmer of hope. These opinions do not represent the opinions of Tommys and are not advice from Tommy's. It seemed inconceivable that we would not be having a baby in May. It felt like a lifetime to reach our 12-week-scan. I have horrible thoughts. And attribute some blame to them. There was a very marked lack of amniotic fluid which made it difficult, not even for the scanners to see, that made the picture of the scan look very, very different. It feels very lonely and isolating. She describes having to make a . I didn't want to go through anymore scans. My belly was growing and I was feeling great. By 7pm, I still hadn't delivered the baby. So we had to go in and out a couple of times, and we were just waiting around for ages and ages. I swallowed the tablet and we left the building. We didn't name him. There is more detailed information about the main conditions that are looked for during this scan on NHS.UK. This is not what I imagined pregnancy to feel like', Baby Loss Awareness Week - Voice Five - Bryony Seabrook. In a small number of cases some very serious conditions are found. Baby loss support I don't know how we got through the next couple of days. But for those few days they were torture. The "why me?" And that was Monday afternoon. But other than that everything was fine. I let out an animal scream and [wife] kind of leapt onto me on the bed. I wanted to be a passive patient while the doctor did what he had to do. Any delay in receiving more information about the abnormality and its implications will be distressing for women and this should be acknowledged. You've had your, you know, you've had your triple test and everything was fine. So it was quite common, this is what happens. Could she possibly have something that's not been detected? But I still didn't want to be the one who stopped this baby's chance to live. Specialist scans had a powerful effect on some parents because they could see the baby more clearly and in some cases people recognised which parts of the baby's body were not working properly. The contractions started very quickly and within an hour my waters had broken. The thing about that which I felt was difficult is that we could tell when being scanned that there was something very seriously wrong. When I see a child with Down's syndrome, I have a tremendous need to explain myself and apologise a million times over. Next most likely (but actually in the minority) they identify something which whilst not 100% healthy is treatable. The sonographer will be able to tell you the results of the scan at the time. I had to wait yet another sleepless night. After that I got, I, it was about in, in 19-, hang on a minute, 2001 I got pregnant again, slightly unexpectedly. After half an hour of lying on the bed, I was starting to get nervous, but was excited to find out that the baby would be a boy and that I could see his little heart beating strongly. It felt as if we had gone power crazy. My partner went out with him, wanting to see him. We were convinced everything would be OK. Again, no notes can have been written down because the midwife asked the same question. It doesn't remove the guilt, but I don't know what else to do. I know I could have delivered him in a quarter of the time, but I couldn't bear the thought of him leaving me. No sort of questions about, 'Do you want to know whether it's a boy or a girl?' The clinic advised a follow up scan the week after, to check on progress and to see what to do next. He had to come to the decision by himself. We'll make an appointment with the senior sonographer, the consultant at the local hospital, and she'll do your scan and she'll be able to tell you more things'. But he was not sure. Check benefits and financial support you can get, Find out about the Energy Bills Support Scheme, NHS fetal anomaly screening programme (FASP), Screening tests for you and your baby (STFYAYB), nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/3, more information and details of support groups. Read full disclaimer. I didn't think my instincts were worth much. As I lay down, and the sonographer started, I could see there was something wrong. Not a good sign in a hospital consulting room. But he was wrong. By the time I left the hospital, I was in shock. Many parents were shocked by findings from the 20-week and later scans. Some hospitals do offer earlier anomaly scans of the baby, but they will not show as much detail as scans performed between 18 and 20weeks. Limitations of the 18-20 week scan That he - I think I was 21 weeks and 3 days, and he was coming up at 19 weeks and 4 days, or something like that. Scans cannot find all conditions. Sometimes doctors will wait to give the baby more time to develop and carry out repeat scans - this had confused several parents we talked to who had gone for repeat scans not knowing that the baby might have a problem. You will then be asked to raise your top to your chest and lower your skirt or trousers to your hips. He looked excited. And it turned out the baby's heart wasn't forming properly, the chambers weren't forming properly. Thinking back, I don't know how we left without him. Sam followed and I broke down. The 18-20 week antenatal scan and further tests, Ending the pregnancy for family & personal reasons, Deciding whether to see, hold and name the baby, Photographs and other mementoes of the baby, Saying goodbye to the baby - services & funerals, Coping with bereavement - women's experiences, Coping with bereavement - men's experiences, Men's ideas about their role in ending a pregnancy. I returned to be told they wanted to scan me again, another internal to see exactly what was happening. Dont include personal or financial information like your National Insurance number or credit card details. Life expectancy of 30 or 40. She brought up a picture of the heart on the screen. So had to come back in a week's time for a scan, which again is quite a common thing I found out. It is as though our pain means we've earned the right to be taken more seriously. And I can just remember flashing a look at you as if to say, 'Have I made a mistake here somewhere? We use some essential cookies to make this website work. I went away and came back, and she couldn't get a good picture. The scan will find about half (50%) of those babies who have heart defects. So I was, they couldn't actually finish the scan then, the baby was moving around too much, so they couldn't scan the heart and the stomach. We bought little outfits, teddies, and researched all the vitamins and foods that I could eat. 'Soft markers'. . Though the 18-20 week scan can detect when certain parts of the baby's body have grown abnormally, it may not be possible for clinicians to identify why it has happened or make a firm diagnosis based on the scan alone. So we decided to book an early 10 week private scan. Sometimes a post mortem was needed to confirm the 20-week diagnosis to see if the baby had inherited a genetic problem (such as Fowler syndrome - see 'Resources'). I wanted to let nature take its course. They said the brain was okay -, We were in there for a matter of minutes, literally -, In and out. We just couldn't use the words. I tried not to sit still for too long, because then I became too aware of the little thing inside me. And they actually asked my husband to come in before they spoke to me. It is impossible to escape them and each one underlines your loss. It was probably all right but hadn't had any fluid in it at the moment. The doctor didn't come. But worse was to come. Again, we weren't understood.

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